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  1. #41

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    Valid point here - I'm feeling lazy today, so since I still have the data from yesterday, I'm going to use this instead of looking up other toons on the armory. These numbers should be multiplied by the armor reduction value of the target as well, but forget that =D

    Original's Eviscerate Damage
    vs. 47.25% resilience target: ((177+((536*5)+17056*0.455)*1.2-529+((536*5)+17056*0.455)*1.2)*(1+((8.95-8)*2.5)/100))*(1-(47.25/100)) = 13341.48
    vs. 39.16% resilience target: ((177+((536*5)+17056*0.455)*1.2-529+((536*5)+17056*0.455)*1.2)*(1+((8.95-8)*2.5)/100))*(1-(39.16/100)) = 15387.59

    Zimax's Eviscerate Damage
    vs. 47.25% resilience target: ((177+((536*5)+17558*0.455)*1.2-529+((536*5)+17558*0.455)*1.2)*(1+((17.38-8)*2.5)/100))*(1-(47.25/100)) = 16444.94
    vs. 39.16% resilience target: ((177+((536*5)+17558*0.455)*1.2-529+((536*5)+17558*0.455)*1.2)*(1+((17.38-8)*2.5)/100))*(1-(39.16/100)) = 18967.02

    High resilience differential: 16444.94 - 13341.48 = 3103.464/13341.48*100 = 23.26% more damage
    Low resilience differential: 18967.02 - 15387.59 = 3579.426/15387.59*100 = 23.26%

    This would suggest that Zimax’s average eviscerate will always hit 23% harder than original’s, regardless of resilience level (which makes sense since that is probably what the tooltip states). LOL I think I just wasted my time…but I guess this disproves the idea that mastery loses effectiveness against higher resilience targets.

    I still think the resilience test (where Original and Zimax are squaring off in the post above) should factor into your decision on whether to run this build or not. Chances are, you and the opposing rogue will be on targets with different resilience levels, so the actual damage output of eviscerate will not be this 23% (say zimax is hitting a 5k shaman and original is beating on a 4k lock for example). The damage done will be closer than this 23%.

    Like Zimax stated, this analysis has really turned towards more of a “Do you value damage output or damage reduction more” type of discussion as opposed to a “Is crit better than mastery.” I can’t really think of a good way to show math on how effective crit is though (crit effects every damage ability we have, so it is hard). Maybe someone more math savvy than myself can help with this?

    @Tosan - You have any desire to weigh in on this nonsense?

  2. #42

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    Typically 1% is 1% more damage, as it is a 1% chance to deal double damage. Thus with a 1% crit chance as opposed to a 0% crit chance one would experience 1% more overall damage before talents that affect crits factor in. Thus the 5% crit lost from going crit to mastery is approximately 5% damage, This leaves us to the point where we ask ourselves, do we want 23% eviscerate damage and SnD damage, or 5% more total damage as hemo. The value of crit does however increase substantially while below 40% crit, due to the affect crit has on Ambush. Further more as an aside, that 1% crit isnt exactly 1% more damage as poisons and procs like No'kaled only crit 50% higher.

    TLDR: before 40% crit each % of crit is valued higher than 1% damage, after 40% crit, i feel each % is about 1% more damage. Thus we are choosing between however much crit over 40% we have, versus how much mastery we can stack, in my case since i can drop under 38% crit and still be soft capped due to kings and Bshout from hunter pets, the amount of mastery i can stack compared to the flat mathmatical increase in damage from crit makes mastery far more appealing, however mastery speccing loses its effectiveness the less one can stack while satying above 40% crit buffed.
    Last edited by zimax; 03-23-2012 at 04:47 PM.

  3. #43

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    Just wanted to bump this as i went back to mastery with some new gear last week, I changed my gloves to 65 mastery and swapped a few other things, I used tier chest/pants so i could have the pvp helm for my 2 set and i also used the mastery pvp neck, the valor ring instead of the hagara ring and the valor boots. With all of this and reforges, I was able to hit about 38.5% crit, 20/20 expertise, 5.1% hit, and 19.8 mastery with about 3600 Resi and 2 set. While this resi isnt ideal for a lot of comps, for triple DPS, 5's, and i guess RMP if u want to play hemo over backstab, the damage was great. Because i had hunter pet Bshout/kings/trueshot and the almost 20 mastery i was getting eviscerate crits at 35k damage during my dance with the on use trinket up. Im back to crit now though, but i just wanted to come back and sy that on my wing procs with fidn weakness up i was doing more damage than i do in a shadow dance. Typically killing healers around 2350-2400 rating by myself or with little to no help while my partners peeled and cc'd

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by zimax View Post
    Just wanted to bump this as i went back to mastery with some new gear last week, I changed my gloves to 65 mastery and swapped a few other things, I used tier chest/pants so i could have the pvp helm for my 2 set and i also used the mastery pvp neck, the valor ring instead of the hagara ring and the valor boots. With all of this and reforges, I was able to hit about 38.5% crit, 20/20 expertise, 5.1% hit, and 19.8 mastery with about 3600 Resi and 2 set. While this resi isnt ideal for a lot of comps, for triple DPS, 5's, and i guess RMP if u want to play hemo over backstab, the damage was great. Because i had hunter pet Bshout/kings/trueshot and the almost 20 mastery i was getting eviscerate crits at 35k damage during my dance with the on use trinket up. Im back to crit now though, but i just wanted to come back and sy that on my wing procs with fidn weakness up i was doing more damage than i do in a shadow dance. Typically killing healers around 2350-2400 rating by myself or with little to no help while my partners peeled and cc'd
    I am using the legendaries now and I get soooo few procs in arena and when I do I am mostly sitting in a CC or I spam eviscerates and the damage is marginal. I mean, a 5pt eviscerate "might" crit for 15k.. MIGHT, but mostly around 12k or so.. the damage is real bad - imho. I guess in hemo you can eviscerate more but I am not sure giving up crit is worth it. I guess if you can squeeze out some more % of slice n' dice speed , perhaps.

    Perhaps I"ll give it a go - trying mastery. Crit is SUCH a RNG'y thing that I have 40% crit on hemo with buffs in PVP and many times I have like 25% crit rate with hemos... so to me, I hate the RNG..

  5. #45

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    Something to try is if they are ccing every proc, just use the slow fall of your wings before you wana burst or u think u will get a proc, people will see wings and cc you. Then they are Dr'd when you actually have a dance/burst. But yeah, i understand whatcha mean when you say eviscerate doesnt hit that hard, i play a comp with a very specific setup where i get every single AP buff in the game, so that percent increase o eviscerate makes it hit like a monster. When i got my full 19-20 mastery set on my eviscerates in dance are hitting 20% harder than my ambushes typically. Which ofc means being able to use 6 in a row if you can cloak or bomb to avoid CC is basically a second Sdance.

  6. #46

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    silentscream is an unknown quantity at this point
    whos this lesty chick and why is she so mad?


  7. #47

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    haha go read other posts from TOmjashroom and you will understand why nobody likes him. He jumps down people's throats and then when he is found out to be an idiot he pretends he was trolling or that he "90% said that for fun". He also corrects people's grammar...incorrectly.

    You can also check out all of my posts on this site. I can tell you that this is THE only thread where I have gotten off-topic or said something that isn't exactly helpful. I'm not proud of my replies in this thread, but then again I STRONGLY dislike this guy. Since this thread there have been multiple times where I wanted to respond to something he said in a different thread, but I refrained from doing so. I believe that partaking in any argument with this person is not helpful to the community whatsoever. I see other people responding to his stupidity and it is just sad to see a thread on Skill-Capped resemble something you would see on AJ.

    Anyway, that's why I am so MAD!

    and btw I'm a dude.

  8. #48

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    silentscream is an unknown quantity at this point
    hi

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