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  1. #1

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    FIRE: Mirts Guide To Massive Combusting.

    21.08.12, Edit: I've been, very slowly, working on a re-write of this post. However, how you set up a combust and how it works will change a fair bit in MoP, making my new post already outdated. As the patching of talents\speccs will happen within two weeks from now, I see no reason to post it.

    I hope to update this post for the new expansion when I get a equally good grip on how the new fire spec and it's combustion mechanic feels. One thing is for sure; Deep Freeze as fire will make things quite interessting!

    -Mirt


    -
    I saw a lot of questions and misconceptions in Deepzx thread about this topic, and I feel I have a good grasp on how combustion works, so I thought I'd share in a more convenient place.
    • Disclaimer:
    • Now as usual: I'm NOT a contributor and thus don't take this as "set in stone". I'd rather have a contributor a writeup or a video, but I'm pretty sure this is helpful nonetheless.


    1. Combusting, The need to knows:

    a) Combustion: basically takes all the damage your current dots are doing the exact second you press combustion and makes a new Dot that does the same DoT damage for 10 seconds. So before you combust your job is to make sure your DoTs hurt like HELL before you combust them.

    The biggest contribution to MASSIVE combusts is Ignite. What you need to know about Ignite is that it lasts 4 seconds and has Two ticks, where it deals 40% (depending on mastery) of the crit as DoT damage. The initial Tick is 2 seconds after you crit, and you should therefore aim to Combust BEFORE that first tick, so your ignite has maximum damage potential when you Combust.

    b) Dispellers: Another thing you need to consider is that the enemy dispeller is in CC, or that he is the combustion target. If someone that can dispel is not in CC, I generally don't combust as it will probably be instantly dispelled, and that is almost gamebreaking. If you combust a healer, you can blanket silence for 4 seconds and then DB for 5 seconds so that the combustion gets max duration. In any case, have awareness and plan how to avoid your combustion getting instantly dispelled.

    c) Bad luck Another thing you need to know, is that Combustion has the potential to be complete shit even if you set it up perfectly. This is because crits are where it's at when it comes to the majority of Combustions potential. This means a combustion can do flat out 100k noncrit damage or anywhere from 100k upto 200k provided you have crit luck.

    So don't be discouraged if your combustion feels weak, even the most epic of all perfect combusts can do "poor" damage if you're unlucky.



    2. A "Reliable" combustion (As if...).

    This is the "Rule of thumb" list of what you NEED - not should, but NEED - to learn to make it hit for decent amounts with high success percentages. This is fairly simple to make happen even if you're under decent amounts of counter pressure, so it's pretty essential to master to a certain degree. Now:

    1. Get a Pyro proc, and DON'T USE IT!
    2. Pop On-Use trinket and CoC for x3 crit chance from shatter and cast Pyro.
    3. Refresh living bomb.
    4. IF your pyro crit - and it should - Use combustion. If you're so unlucky that your pyro doesn't crit, DO NOT COMBUST - But yeah.. It REALLY should crit..!

    The reason for the steps are as follows.

    1. Your living bomb dot is as high as it can be
    2. Your pyro crit is as high as it can be.
    3. Your combustion is cast INSTANTLY after the pyro crit, so ignite has the most ticks it can have left.
    4. Provided the combustion lasts it entire duration - your living bomb will explode just as the combustion ends for added burst.
    5. Profit.

    I did 3 tests on a target dummy in THIS gear and that combust does an almost guarantied 150-200k dmg.
    So Lets say 175k on average x 0.50 to factor in a heavy resi target = An average of ~90k on a 5k+ resi target. Which is pretty much a dead "insert class here" if it gets combusted without migitation at sub 75% hp. And remember, thats combustion alone. If you time it right you can easily add 100k of your own burst on top of that, and then your partner comes into the picture, savy? Evil damage indeed.


    3. Advanced Combusting.

    This is a broad topic and is SUPER hard to explain in text as there are an INFINITE amount of variables that can make Combust massive. I'll provide a few "pro" tips on combusting and if the demand is high, I might make a little Youtube vid explaning this post and more advanced ways to abuse Combustion.

    I'll leave you with a few tips:

    1. Opportunistic combusting: is not a bad idea, IF you can avoid the dispel. There will be random times where you get massive and completely random 2-3 critts in a row thanks to the kindness of RNG gods. Provided that you have a way to protect your opportunistic combust against dispells, go for it, as it can be HUGE unexpected pressure.

    2. Advanced combustion planning Each time you Crit ONCE, consider your cooldowns and opportunities to setup a double-crit to combust. A "quick" example:

    a) I have dots everywhere and overall pressure is good.
    b) The dispeller is under MASSIVE pressure and\or is CC'd to shreds.
    c) I crit ONCE with a random spell, be it scorch or whatever.

    This is the moment where you need to be in control and plan out your next moves:

    d) Do I have DPS CDs? (Trinkets whatnot)
    e) Can my partner assist me in a kill? (Communication /w Tosan, He'll give you a lecture you'll never forget.)
    f) Can I hardcast a Fireball? (HUGE variable, and another reason I think Fire Haste is surperior to all out crit.)

    If the answer to all of the above is YES, pop DPS trinket, refresh LB, do a nova for x3 crit from shatter, and hardcast Fireball (I have it glyphed - 5% crit - exactly for this reason.) You already have your first crit from earlier, so you KNOW an instant Pyro will procc. So Prepaire to Combust the SHIT out of your target!

    3. Combustion spreading: Impact is f****** awesome and very underestimated. Using flamestrike to get an impact proc before you combust can be gamebreaking. If you spread combustion to more than one target with CC on the healer you'll probably make the healer panic. Or at best they won't even register the danger they're in before it's to late as it's a bit hard to catch.

    That's about it for now I guess, this is long enough as it is. If you have comments, criticism, <3's or just a cookie. Feel free to express yourself.

    Hope this helped someone!
    - Mirt.
    Last edited by Mirtas; 08-21-2012 at 08:42 AM. Reason: Corrections and spelling... Obviously.

  2. #2

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    Absolutely amazing post...This is why I love the Skill-Capped community so much. Average community members investing their own time and effort for the benefit of all is something you don't see anywhere else. This has helped me a ton (I don't even play mage). Now I have a few things to look for so I can prepare my healer for massive fire mage burst.

    Thanks a ton Mirtas...seriously

  3. #3

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    Thank you... oh dear god, thank you. Always enjoyed fire mage alot, but really getting to know the mechanics properly just makes it all the better

  4. #4

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    Does it really matter whether you combust before the 1st tick of ignite? I thought combustion just takes the DPS of the dot (not the overall remaining damage to be done) into account. From my [shallow] understanding, you can combust even when ignite and living bomb are about to fall off and still have the same strength of combustion. The only downside would be that you might not have time to spread the ignite and living bomb with impact proc along with the combustion.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by razoria View Post
    Does it really matter whether you combust before the 1st tick of ignite? I thought combustion just takes the DPS of the dot (not the overall remaining damage to be done) into account. From my [shallow] understanding, you can combust even when ignite and living bomb are about to fall off and still have the same strength of combustion. The only downside would be that you might not have time to spread the ignite and living bomb with impact proc along with the combustion.
    Hmm, I did a few tests now, and checked out elitistjerks.com, and you seem to be right. Though I'm not 100% sure yet. I'll do some more research and get back to you on this.

    The thing is that even if I'm wrong, PvP is about burst, and of you combust at the END of when your dots tick - and combustion DOES get the same damage as if you combusted instantly - The total effect would be less threatening to a healer.

    This is since you basically only have one set of dots instead of two, as would be the case with an early combustion. And the healer would have more time to heal up and eventually dispel and counter it.

  6. #6

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    Asset is an unknown quantity at this point
    Fantastic job Mirtas... this is worth a sticky for sure.

  7. #7

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    Deepz, thats me :P
    Yeah nice summarize even if I understood it until now, I'm sure it's very helpful for other mages who are new to fire.
    But is it a good idea to nova AFTER LB is up?
    The LB ticks will break nova and i don't think that you will get a fireball off into your nova with LB up on your target.
    Last edited by Deepzx; 04-11-2012 at 03:30 PM.

  8. #8

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    Good write up but just a few things you might want to add.

    Instead of waiting on the instant Pyro u can CoC root immediatly Scorch > Fireblast (on the same GCD for the x3 crit as you would do with Frostbolt > Icelance) giving you the Hotstreak buff almost always if you have high enough Crit, then Pop Trinkets > Refresh LB > Frost Nova > Insant Pyro > Combust

    atleast thats what i do with about ~25% Crit and it works most of the time

    Note: Requires Shatter and Imp. CoC talent from Frost Tree

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepzx View Post
    Deepz, thats me :P
    Yeah nice summarize even if I understood it until now, I'm sure it's very helpful for other mages who are new to fire.
    But is it a good idea to nova AFTER LB is up?
    The LB ticks will break nova and i don't think that you will get a fireball off into your nova with LB up on your target
    .
    Not nova, but a CoC, it has a bit higher tolerance for breaking as it's a "random root", or whatever, so it usually works out. Though there are occasions where nothing damn well goes as you want, but that's RNG for ya.

    In any case - and whatever spell you use - the point is to have the target frozen so the pyro has a HUGE chance of critting. And the most reliable way to have a nova when you pyro, is to use pyro with your next global. If you want to "Nova\CoC->LB->Pyro", your nova might break anyway or be dispelled, wasting it completely. It's a sort of reliability thing, and I at least, think following a nova\CoC with a pyro is the most reliable chance you get.. if that made any sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elzer View Post
    Good write up but just a few things you might want to add.

    Instead of waiting on the instant Pyro u can CoC root immediatly Scorch > Fireblast (on the same GCD for the x3 crit as you would do with Frostbolt > Icelance) giving you the Hotstreak buff almost always if you have high enough Crit, then Pop Trinkets > Refresh LB > Frost Nova > Insant Pyro > Combust

    atleast thats what i do with about ~25% Crit and it works most of the time

    Note: Requires Shatter and Imp. CoC talent from Frost Tree
    Both yes and no. I could have worded it a bit better, but how you procure your Pyro Proc is kind of irrelevant, as I only wanted to explain the combustion part.

    However, the Pyro proc itself last for 14 seconds, so you could in theory - unless you're in a hurry to burst that is: CoC->scorch+fireblast for the pyro->wait for CoC to come back up->on use trinket+LB->CoC for shatter->Pyro->combustion. It's a bit hard to do, as you have a lot to do in a short time, but usually works out. But again, how you get the pyro wasn't really that important when I wrote it, as most people know how to get the proc itself.

    And I also like to use nova as more of a CC, since the cooldown is so long, You can have almost 3 CoC's in a single nova CD, so you shouldn't really NEED a nova to get proccs; That is unless I NEED a proc NOW to score a kill - and CoC is on CD.

    - Mirt.

  10. #10

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    I would not recommend reforging haste at all. Crit has so much higher benefit from hot streak and talent synergy than haste ever will. Also roots, snares, and blazing speed give you the windows you need to cast.

    I also wouldn't recommend fireball glyph. You don't need it at all. Molten armor or mage armor are going to be better depending on comp.
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