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  1. #1

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    mattchavie is on a distinguished road

    Trying to get better and am not improving (lf help)

    I've been playing arenas since late S9, at that point in time I had a holy paladin, rogue and warrior at 85. I played all 3 for caps and looked for teams on them. I played a bunch but didn't know what was going on much, I had been playing since WOTLK came out and had an ok idea but had been a pve'er. I never used recklessness, I didn't bop to remove bleeds, wasn't sure what to do as a rogue and worked to learn these things. I did raf and got a hunter/dk to 85 and played them a bit, hunter was a big wash and as a frost dk I had some ok success, got my first 1550 2/3s ach all the while not playing the class very well. S10 dropped and I played more, learned cd's and how to use them, learned positioning and other basic things, by now I had figured out who normal kill targets would be etc. I got to 1958 on my warrior, and it wasn't because we hit a wall, played 70-100 games tops all in a week, then our schedules didn't mesh and we never played together again. Since this I have struggled to get to 1700, I usually get to 1600 and then tank into the 1400s. I've blamed myself, blamed my class, blamed my teammates or lack thereof, and haven't been able to hammer this down.

    I constantly get beat my people I'd consider much worse than me and with less game knowledge, people trinket scatter and still win. Lock teammate dies in a cloak of shadows, just a bunch of obsurd things.

    I really enjoy wow, and have put forth a crap load of time and effort to what seems like no avail. How am I supposed to actually get better?

    and for all the questions that may come I:
    have everything bound, use gladius and other common addons, don't overextend when I shouldn't, I los when healers can't heal, I save my cds for enemy cds (save disarm for recklessness), have a good knowledge of other classes (have 7 85s), watch most videos on SC and wow tournaments, and most of all I'm always actively trying to improve and am stuck as this 1600 barrier that I feel I shouldn't be stuck at.

    This has gotten to the point where I worry about my global use and my own cognitive brain functions.

    TLDR; Time and effort put forth are not panning out and I'm looking for a more effective way because I feel that I should be better than my results.

  2. #2

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    Arduous is on a distinguished road
    It's frustrating for everyone when they aren't seeing the progress they'd like to. The main point I'd like to get across, is if you don't know what you're doing wrong, you wont be able to work on it. So, if you aren't already Fraps or otherwise record EVERY GAME POSSIBLE, you won't be able to adequately single out your mistakes mid-game and remember them. Just like Pro-Athletes watch films about their games and their opponents, it benefits you greatly to watch how you play while you are calm, collected and a 3rd person perspective.

    I would recommend this as the #1 way to isolate your mistakes. Compile them into a list, figure out what you're doing wrong the most/what is having the most negative impact on your play. And after you've watched it once and wrote down everything you see, go to sleep, wake up and watch it again and you'll catch more minor things you didn't notice before.

    Also, don't try to work on everything all at once, it WILL overwhelm you and you'll get more discouraged, take everything in tiny bits at a time.

  3. #3

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    Yurup is on a distinguished road
    I think step 1 would be to focus on 1 char.
    Step 2 would be finding a team willing to walk the mile just like you do. With that I mean play the same amount of games and put in the effort. I've finally gotten a team like that.
    Step 3 would be playing as much as you can while you and your team keep doing what you are doing, learning. It will take some time but you will get to 1800.

  4. #4

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    mattchavie is on a distinguished road
    This is the frustrating part, we played 100+ games as DkMP, I would go over what happened and what I felt we could do better. I play WoW too much as is, and the reason for changing classes is a stupid one in that when I play x I'm countered by y so I play z. I plan to stick to mage/rogue so I have good control to help out teammates. I've logged stupid amounts of playtime on some characters, my rogue has 50 days played and my mage hasn't been played as much do to it being one of the most recent 85s.

    But I will take these into consideration/implement them.

    I've already started to fraps games and don't feel that the mistakes I make are any more or less obvious, I have a great short term memory and can remember where the match went south and where we had good momentum. Once I find some mage positioning guides I will compare my games to better players and see where they are standing in respect to opponents. I was told that I cast too much, so I am working on using icelance more and fb less.

    For the time being I will work on what I can improve via recording matches, playing 2 characters, working on communication and positioning, and after that cooldown usage. I guess a lot of other things for me is GCD usage I feel like I play less than optimal but will use the class threads for that. Thank you so far, looking forward to other responses.

  5. #5

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    Namasensei is on a distinguished road

    Communication

    Have you tried improving in communication and listening to your team mates, obivously you listen tpo ur team mates but many lame ass errors can still be saveable, as you said ppl get off on trinketing scatters, i know ppl do that at 1500-1800, and i do not know why i cant get over them either and i have played with good people "i think" and still we have lost because we used to many cds -> block into ps etc.. communication can get you very far. and do the fraps thingy. i am in your position with having problem beating 1600 teams, sometimes i even lsoe to triple dps at 1300 "lol" sometimes i or my team mates make so damn bad choices, but some fasta nd good talk can save alot:S

    Anyone know a free frapsing program ??

  6. #6

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    Rugmouse will become famous soon enough
    There has been some great advice so far. In addition to everything above, I'll leave a Rugmouse monster post for when you have nothing better to do! =D

    One thing you could do that has helped me in the past is uploading some LOSSES to youtube and sharing the link here on skill-capped. I've gotten several great comments when doing this exercise that has really helped me improve. Try to pick a match where you thought you played relatively well (you'll notice mistakes in every match, but the less you can spot, the better). I've found that 3rd party sources give the best, unbiased opinions of your performance and can give you the hard facts, without the sugar coating.

    When you say the opposing team trinkets a scatter, what are you and your teammates doing to make them pay for the poor choice? It's actually funny - my arena pass partners and I "tanked" our rating last night to get to the 100 game threshold for the title, so we were playing a lot of teams in the lower mmr brackets. One thing I noticed was the extremely hasty use of trinkets and other cooldowns. If the opposing team uses a cooldown/trinket, you need to be looking for a way to abuse that fact. If you just simply let them trinket and go on their merry way, nothing in the game actually changes. As a rogue, I save my stuns/smokebombs/dance for when opportunities like this come up. Another option is to put them into a CC chain and create a 2v3 situation. One thing I abuse quite often (which works pretty well even at higher ratings) is to start on a target you don't necessarily want to kill, with a cc chain on your kill target. When they trinket, you can make a hard swap with a full stun + dance + smokebomb which will either land you the kill right there, or force other enemies to blow cooldowns/trinkets to keep their partner alive.

    Control should not be used just for the sake of using it. Thinking of the ramifications of putting your target on DR prior to doing so is a great exercise. Questions like, “Will you get someone’s trinket if you poly that warrior?” or recognizing what cooldowns that warrior has left…“If I disarm him now, I won’t be able to peel his “reck storm” burst later. A lot of arena is just making sure you are one step ahead of your opponent. If you recognize what they are going to be doing BEFORE they do it, you can set yourself up to counter their actions.

    In short:

    1. Abuse poor cooldown usage
    2. Fraps your games and upload them for Skill-Capped members to review
    3. Make sure putting someone on DR has a purpose
    4. Think ahead! What are they going to do next?

    Without actually seeing you in action, I can’t really give you much more advice, especially since I’m not really sure what comps you are playing. If we could see your game play footage, we could give you much more specific advice on how to improve as a player.

    From your summary, I’ve gathered that you are well on your way to improving and you have gathered a lot of the necessary game knowledge. The next step is simply utilizing that knowledge correctly so it translates into wins! Just stay positive, work hard, and eventually you’ll see everything pay off.

    Rug

  7. #7

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    The scatters happen in 2s on my hunter when I go to trap, I can monkey stun out of the trinket but after that I don't have anything for 20 secs, and by then we have rapid fire and w/e other cd their teammates have pounding into someone. I usually play double dps with a low cc class like dk/war and their few ccs there's nothing to fill that gap and that's the problem that I have, is that I personally haven't found a way to cover down on myself.

    Here's some as me on mage as DkMP, Mage . I had some feedback from Iceking on these, like to cast less, but how about generally positioning and my opener? I am unsure how mages open, I assume that I can get cc off easier than lots of the videos that I watch because 1600-1800 mmr is a lot different than 2.4k+. So personally I go invis poly heals if I can get it, then deep freeze the target, hit them, then poly again with 1-2 seconds left so it lands on them with a chance to los or heal. Then I will blanket cs out of that to keep heals down. And then we have the enemy at 10-20% with a defensive cd down and that's where things vary. But looking forward to any feedback.

  8. #8

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    Arduous is on a distinguished road
    I would recommend not "Sandbagging" your play, 1600-1800 IS different than 2.4k, but if you want to reach 2.4k, you should try to start playing like a 2.4k player, so by the time you reach that point it becomes second nature and muscle memory.

  9. #9

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    Submitx is on a distinguished road
    Quote Originally Posted by Yurup View Post
    I think step 1 would be to focus on 1 char.
    Step 2 would be finding a team willing to walk the mile just like you do. With that I mean play the same amount of games and put in the effort. I've finally gotten a team like that.
    I agree with ^above. This is some of the things I struggle with; especially Step 1. If I make one mistake on a character I feel I'll never be able to do it in the future so my mind starts to wrap around the IFs of becoming something else.

  10. #10

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    Erebus is on a distinguished road
    Shitty opener....You want your DK to get into combat quicker to avoid a sap, you want to have a priest shield on you to stop you getting hit out of stealth, open with CC onto the shaman and go hard on the shadow priest, its funny in the opener, your bursting with casted frostbolts at the same time the shaman is just happily casting heals negating all your pressure. The rogue used cloak so early so a swap onto him should could have been a good choice, you put a ring around the shaman when he was in 0 CC any good shaman would have just stood in the center and let the ring burn out or dropped a grounding and just ran through it. You want to nova with blanket silence then put a ring over that. When you CC the shaman you should also silence the priest so there can be no MD unless the shaman has a tonne of magic debuffs on him making the MD unlikely. Your DK imo should be UH no self respecting DK plays frost. you need to switch, every single deep should be on a new person, if there is CC on the healer and your going to get a full shatter, you should fuck the person. so if you keep switching you will get ALOT of CD's very fast and at a lower MM they will probably overlap them too.

    Ok i have just watched this again....You manage to catch the Natures swiftness with CC and it is on the shaman for 15<seconds before he uses an SLT then uses it....lol...dispel it.

    regarding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-W_ayRnOFQ&feature=plcp
    Last edited by Erebus; 06-06-2012 at 11:03 PM.

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